Sharing of IB vs NSS

slamai

My understanding is that the local Us' admission requirements in Chinese language for non-JUPAS (IB) applicants are not the same and Chinese B should be acceptable in most cases.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-9-9 15:41 發表
My son sent emails to different universities both local and overseas to ask languages requirements, like LSE recognised IB English L&LS SL and no need to take IELTS.

Does local university recognise I ...

slamai

Local Us often adopt a more flexible approach in their admission of non-JUPAS applicants, e.g. some courses will only interview non-JUPAS applicants but not their JUPAS counterparts whose academic performance will be the sole criterion for admission. As faculties/departments have high autonomy in admission of undergraduates and it is difficult to generalise all the individual requirements, it is more 'effort' effective to focus on the requirements of those target courses of your kid.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-9-9 18:10 發表


We read those requirements, we have the same understanding as you said. But we talked to the further study adviser, she recommended us to double check with university, particularly for the target pr ...

slamai

The choice should only be available for the IB DP cohort in 2012 but not after as local Us will no longer offer 3-year undergraduate courses by then.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-9-18 17:49 發表
I know a boy who is one year senior than my son in IBDP, his father told me that his son can take 3 years program instead of 4 years program in HK, but not for HKDSE in 2012.

If there is a choice, I  ...

slamai

I recently got the understanding from Admissions Officers that the local Us also take into account the SAT results (if available) in assessing the applications. For early consideration, the SAT results should better be available before Nov (1 Nov for HKU and 15 Nov for CUHK this year).  If target is Oxbridge, the UCAS deadline is even earlier - end Sep!

slamai

I have marked up some comments in your post below:

原帖由 c1234 於 11-10-24 09:45 發表
不好意思，努力地看了這topic，但始終不能明白，想請教下前輩：
1 究竟讀IB 是否好過讀 334？
If finance and the ability of the child is not an issue, IB is better.
2 若讀IB，是否在小學階段開始讀會好些，還是在初中FORM 1階段開始讀會好些，又或者是FORM 4開始讀會好些？
The earlier the better ... it can help develop the brain of the child as contrast with spoon-feeding education.
謝謝！ ...

slamai

For non-JUPAS applicants, there is no requirement on Chinese language for the 3 local law schools except that the subject will still contribute to the total IB score. If the bilingual diploma is not a must and it is considered that there are already enough challenges in the IB DP programme, Chinese B is OK.

原帖由 WYmom 於 11-10-23 21:20 發表


I don't understand your options.  My daughter in ESF will take English A and Chinese A in Group 1, and no Group 2.

I think if your kid wants to study law, English A HL is a must, Chinese A can be H ...

slamai

There is no doubt that good Chinese is preferable, if not essential, to work in Hong Kong's law firms (both local and international alike). However, it is something which will be decisive 5 years (4 years LLB + 1 year PCLL) later.  For now, the first target of the student is to get into the law school. HKU requires at least 38 out of 42 from the applicant's IB score. If the student is not strong in Chinese, Chinese B may be a more sensible choice and s/he can polish his/er Chinese in the coming 5 years before going into the legal job market.

原帖由 WYmom 於 11-10-28 18:37 發表


Even Chinese A is not a must, some lawyers I know advised that Chinese is important for studying law as well.  So Chinese A is preferred for working in HK.

slamai

I can only give my personal opinion as follows which you need to review on a case by case basis before considering adoption:

Its true that, as you have said, IB qualifications’ 國際認受性高viz-a-viz 334 results which even the local universities are skeptical at this early stage. Nonetheless, most countries (including Hong Kong SAR) have a policy of protecting their educational system and, given that two students have equivalent academic results, the one holding a local qualification will be admitted to a local university place (funded by the government) rather than the one holding a foreign/international qualification.

Having said that, the difference between IB and 334 may not be very big from the theoretical perspective. IB DP has CAS, which is creativity, action and service, while 334 has 通識. There are opinions that 334 models IB in its design, though with local adaptation. However, if 334 tries to imitate IB’s inquiry-based learning, the local teachers cannot cope with it as they are not trained to teach in this way.
Even if they are properly trained, a lot of preparation work is required which the local teachers cannot afford as they are already overwhelmed by admin work.
The IB schools in Hong Kong are generally more resourceful and recruit teachers who are better trained in IB learning as contrast with those in the average local 334 schools. IBO also monitors the ‘performance’ of IB schools on a regular basis.

I always consider that getting into the university is only a starting point nowadays. The students need to excel themselves when they graduate before they can secure a promising job to develop their career. The IB education provides a very good foundation for the child in his/er development and prepare him/er to face the challenge ahead. IB emphasizes high level (transferable) skills which are more important than low level skills as the latter will be outdated in the course of time while the former is sustainable. Inquiry-based learning should provide better stimulus to the child’s brain for its development from early childhood upto and beyond adolescence.

Lastly, please don't misunderstand me that IB is suitable for all. Traditional education can sometimes be more suitable for some children, largely depending on their character. Parents need to assess for their children individually. IB DP is also very demanding and may not be suitable for marginal students. While IB DP definitely better prepares the student for university education, vocational oriented training will be more appropriate for those who do not target to enter the university.

原帖由 c1234
於 11-10-31 14:16 發表
[url=http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=34073137&ptid=2214323][/url]
Hi Slamai,
誠心的想請教你！為什麼IB 會好過334呢？是否只因為國際認受性高? Or 因為無需要讀通識？若將來只想讀本地大學，是否IB仍然好過334呢？
thank you! ...

slamai

First things first, I'm obviously no expert in this field and my opinion may only reflect part of the reality which is the outcome from my personal observation and experience.

The gap between IB and traditional education tends to converge (but of course never meet) from PYP upto DP in the sense that it is increasingly examination-oriented. My previous remarks are largely applicable to those lower grades students who spend their spare time playing computer games rather than doing more reading.  If the progress of these students is not satisfactory (according to their teachers' formative assessment), traditional education emphasizing more on discipline and summative assessment may be more suitable for such children who exhibit weakness in self discipline and/or motivation and easily influenced by their peers but are still able to follow guidance without much problem.
When I refer to ‘traditional education’, it does not necessarily mean that of a typical local school nowadays which has been very much distorted from the role of ‘education’. Last but not least, there may not exist an ideal school but there should be a certain particular school (not necessarily an IB school) which can better suit the needs of an individual student.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-4 17:46 發表
slamai

Thanks for your detail reply, some of your points enlightened me.

Quote
Lastly, please don't misunderstand me that IB is suitable for all. Traditional education can sometimes be more suitable ...

slamai

I would benchmark the 'traditional' education as that prevalent in the years more than two decades ago when the education system in Hong Kong worked pretty well. The distortion I referred to may be symbolically illustrated by Prof Cheng's Fig. 3 on p.10 (the shift to Quadrant II) and Table 1 on p.11 (the shift to Roles 8 to 10) of his article below:
[url=http://home.ied.edu.hk/~yccheng/doc/articles/4-8jul02.pdf]香港教育的明天: 改革與教學
[/url]

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-8 18:59 發表
slamai

Thanks for your elaboration and answer my query. I agreed with your observations and remarks.

In your reply, why you stated this
"When I refer to ‘traditional education’, it does not neces ...

slamai

ANChan59:

You may take a look at the following post:
http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=2344591&page=1#pid34097225

It is interesting that [李家琳]已透過「優先取錄」計劃報考中大醫學院及港大法律學院。

My understanding on her choices is that medicine and law cannot be the backup of each other (in the application of a particular university) due to keen competition and a non-JUPAS applicant only submits one personal statement for each university application even though s/he has at least 3 choices.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-7 14:20 發表
武航

"Would you please elaborate more on your "expectation management" ?"

My son will have a wider range of choices of program to fit in different PG or actual grades, which he prefers and intereste ...

slamai

ANChan59

I've marked my suggestion in your last post below. While QFin as a 2nd choice for CUHK is not a safe backup due to keen competition and difficulty in writing up the personal statement to cover this 2nd choice, pairing it with HKUST (as a first choice) is a more confident backup which should work in the scenario you are working at.

From your LSE choice, does it mean that other choices in the UCAS application will also be Economics + Political Science?

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-9 19:46 發表

slamai

Thanks so much for your info and reminder.

I need to stagger the choices for different universities and may be both HK & UK.

Eg.
40+  HKU/CUHK - MBBS
38+  LSE - Economics +Political
                  Science
36+  HKUST - QFin

I hope this can work out. Any suggestion?

ANChan59

slamai

I only used Prof Cheng's Quadrant II in Fig 3 and Roles 8 to 10 in Table 1 to illustrate the directon of distortion. His article did not mention details of other distortions like teaching a curriculum one or even two years ahead of the normal (traditional)syllabus, too many tests/exams (especially in the case of lower grades), too much (repetitive)homework, etc. While Prof Cheng proposed to trim the syllabuses for educational reform, he did not mention about reducing the homework to foster a balanced life, both for the students and for the parents. Although we still have very good students in public schools (govt / subsidised), the performance of some good primary and junior secondary students is prone to deteriorate in higher forms when indepth understanding and critical thinking becomes more important.

If I'm in a position to give advice, a child with fewer choices should not stretch his/er limits to target for a school with the highest banding so that his/er results in school will drop to below average. Otherwise, s/he will not be happy and his/er confidence will be undermined. It is important that parents should not give an impression to their children that it will be end of the world if they cannot enter their dream schools. Not everyone will be doctors or lawyers but they can still contribute to the society and live a happy and meaningful life. From previous research, the people of Hong Kong are not as happy as those who live in less developed countries. It comes up to the question ... what is the purpose of life! Good education is just a process ... its the ultimate goal that really matters after all.

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-11-9 20:19 發表
slamai

Thanks for your info, it's my second time to read the same article. I agreed with the distortion of education system, but I will use Fig. 1 as illustration of distortion, just illustrate DSS ( ...

slamai

There are other factors not mentioned in previous posts which can have impact on U offers, e.g. personal statement, reference letter, awards, ECAs, etc.
I observe that "just studying" (not many ECAs?) and "quiet" (interview performance?) may be hints why he seems to be less successful in obtaining U offers viz-a-viz his PG.

ksenia 發表於 12-1-20 11:52
i would really like to comment on this.
in fact, the boy is excellent in oral and writing as he's a canadian-chinese

he never goes onto facebook or internet games..just studying

in terms of maturity..i have no idea..but he's a quiet boy, sometimes a little bit hardcore

yes this is just a tip of the iceberg.

slamai

Thanks for the information.  I can supplement a couple of conditional offers below for reference:
"What are the conditions for the conditional offers?
QFin 37+/ 45
Medicine HKU 40-42/45
Others not very sure."

Law HKU 38+/42 (without interview) CU 39+/45 (after interview)
English Cambridge 42+/45 (after UK interview)

ANChan59 發表於 12-2-5 16:03
回復 94BABY 的帖子

94BABY

slamai

回覆 ANChan59 的帖子

"Use medical school as reference, JUPAS top 1.5% can get in ..... for NJ, normally top 0.5%."

Please enlighten us how you have come up with the above figures for easy reference.