請問版主：為何此處空窗處處？連Eviepa都被釘戶？

motherotk

"讀得多書, 當然面皮薄"


Interesting interpretation!!

iantsang

kls12,

So what are still being unclear to you?

All along, the request was to ask members not to discuss the issues related to the thread under review (it was not deleted!), during the course of the review.  So, once the thread was moved back to the forum, the request has been ended.  I thought it was pretty clear in my last reply.

As you may notice, there haven't been any more one-day bans after the first few days.  So as you have seen, many members have spoken up and there were no more bans afterward.  We do like to allow the room for discussions within a reasonable manner.

You may feel unfair being hand the one-day ban personally but you are one of the very first to challenge the request.  However, we do review the later suggestions by other members so the arrangement has been adjusted later on, internally.

In particular, we always welcome members to bring in suggestions to improve the process.  So, no matter these suggestions are useful or not, we should allow members to voice out.

However, the first few comments which are purely on questioning and complaints without substances, are being considered unnecessary.

motherotk

No, you are not,
I just disagreed with your point of view, that's all!

You can keep on your "supporting statements" as this is a free forum!

原帖由 35C9 於 11-11-7 01:15 發表
Sorry, 我講得實在太多了.

kls12

原帖由 iantsang 於 11-11-7 09:48 發表
kls12,

So what are still being unclear to you?

All along, the request was to ask members not to discuss the issues related to the thread under review (it was not deleted!), during the course of the  ...

一個來勢洶洶的戒嚴，原來是已經靜悄悄的解禁了。
各人紛紛說了出位的宣言而離去，我卻為了尊重版主的要求，等待可說話的一天。原來這等待是不必的，因為政策已改變了，在後期已沒有執行了。
為什麼版主大人沒有通知我們，讓我們有發言的權利，真是令守規則的人無所適從。

在戒嚴令發出後，eviepa未發一言而被禁言一天。我的12字中文發言被理解成談及事件，影響工作進度。及後stccmc的157字英文發言卻沒有問題，還得到160字的回應，其實也是回答我的問題。還有•••。其實，可否說成這措施實行得不理想呢。

我之所以堅持弄清楚，並非為我個人的榮辱，我是想向前看。有一個小小的建議，若版主可以說一聲，這次的措施實行得不理想，不會再推行類似的措施，我們已經不須要再為此而討論了。

motherotk

" 大人大姐唔好嘈來嘈去"

Disagree with your logic, and I use different kind of presentation, that's all!

You can keep on your supporting statements with my disagreement on your statement. no offending to me.

Having diverse arguments is not bad.

原帖由 式柔 於 11-11-6 13:50 發表
我入人地屋企會遵守主人家既說話既. 人地有人地規矩, 叫我等下我咪等囉, 佢又冇話唔同我溝通

總之, 我入黎呢度只係俾個支持版主, 唔喜歡既人可以唔理, 但就唔好講埋D挑剔性既評語, 大人大姐唔好嘈來嘈去,  ...

iantsang

wunma,

I don't find the reasons why your thread should be retrieved but here's the content of your post:

原帖由 wunma 於 11-10-21 10:54 發表
8年前, 曾經沉迷上bk的我, bk是我生活的一部分. 那時網上的發言, 十分好看. 後來不知何解, 網上留言的規範, 變得越來越緊, 那些以所謂理性討論, 保持和諧氣氛等理由, 要封戶來脅網民要慎言, 實質是窒礙自由發表, 漸漸地, bk越來越沒有追看的價值, 現在更可以不明所以地任意封户, 精彩的文章, 喜歡的網友, 買少見少.

現在好了, 不用再為了少數僅餘喜歡的網友而上bk, 樂得少了個牽掛.

I have highlighted the reason why your thread was removed, just in case you still don't understand.

End of the conversation.

[ 本帖最後由 iantsang 於 11-11-8 17:28 編輯 ]

iantsang

原帖由 kls12 於 11-11-8 11:10 發表

一個來勢洶洶的戒嚴，原來是已經靜悄悄的解禁了。
各人紛紛說了出位的宣言而離去，我卻為了尊重版主的要求，等待可說話的一天。原來這等待是不必的，因為政策已改變了，在後期已沒有執行了。
為什麼版主大人沒有通知我們，讓我 ...

Of course it was not ideal.  The ideal situation would be everyone can cooperate as per requested and then we can finish the review sooner.

For your information, eviepa has spoken, with a new thread, and it was moved away.  So, you just didn't notice it only and that's why he has been blocked for one day.  Your post and his new thread are the first few responses.

So like what you have observed, we are trying to improve the handling method in the process.  So, it is impossible to notify the members if we are making every slight adjustment in the process.  It all depends on how the members react and as administrators, we can simply counter-react.

I cannot guarantee you if such handling will not be implement again.  If situation arises where such handling is required again, then members would be notified.  But for certain, this is definitely not going to happen often.

kls12

原帖由 kls12 於 11-11-8 11:10 發表

我的12字中文發言被理解成談及事件，影響工作進度。及後stccmc的157字英文發言卻沒有問題，還得到160字的回應，其實也是回答我的問題。

Dear Iantsang,

你介不介意給我解釋這問題?


感謝

[ 本帖最後由 kls12 於 11-11-8 17:42 編輯 ]

iantsang

原帖由 kls12 於 11-11-8 17:39 發表


Dear Iantsang,

你介不介意給我解釋這問題?


感謝

Yes I am willing to explain to you.

As I have told you before, it was because your reply (disregard of the number of words used) was made soon after the request not to discuss on the issue.  So, we have no choices but to implement the penalty.

For the other posts, we simply reviewed them together at a later time and we would at least tried to understand why the members still continue to post.  For certain, we didn't want to ban too many members unless it is absolutely necessary.  So, as I said to you, it was unfortunate that you were the first few to speak up so it was at the tightest measure at that time.

Hope this can help you to understand better.

kls12

在戒嚴令中已很清晰地說出調查的是 "本港教師質素, 失望!!!" ，而judy的言論是"不專重版主"已是定案，該訊息已被清除。

禁言一天原因 :
1) A key reason why this is required, is to protect the completeness of the concerned posts during the review.
2) 求各會員在完成(調查)前先不要作無謂猜測，以免影響工作進度。

據我了解, 1&2 是指 "本港教師質素, 失望!!!",而不是"judy的言論"。
討論一個定案,怎會影響要調查的個案工作進度?

[ 本帖最後由 kls12 於 11-11-9 09:53 編輯 ]

kls12

原帖由 iantsang 於 11-11-7 09:48 發表
kls12,

So what are still being unclear to you?
.....
So, once the thread was moved back to the forum, the request has been ended.

剛剛看了戒嚴令的最後一句，是寫著 "Please be reminded we will still enforce the temporarily ban until further notice."
我是一個守法的人，一直等這個通告，卻......

由於大家的背景不同，處理危機的經驗、邏輯思維也有很大的分別，我不等上一個留言的回覆，也大概知道結果了。我想弄清楚的東西已清楚了，是時候作出總結了。

用戒嚴的形式去令各會員收聲是一個不可能成功的方法，執行上令人信服更是沒可能完成的任務。客觀地去看，戒嚴反而令工作量大增，更令雙方去到一個對立的狀況，很多人的情緒受到影響。

其實，讓會員去討論，兩、三天已沒有話題了。執法後令人服氣是一個很高深的學問，就以「吳廣得」事件為例，大臣處理得非常好，讓他們去辯論，有問必答，第三天已經沒有人有興趣了。

希望版主可考慮我的建議吧！

朋友們，不要只看不說，再見了！

[ 本帖最後由 kls12 於 11-11-9 16:49 編輯 ]

Kanba

kls12,

很佩服你求真究底的精神。你問下去，雖然清楚結果如何，你也要求版主有個說法。

其他的朋友只看不說，甚至一去不回，只因兩個理由：失望、無癮。雖然大家都是依依不捨的，但現在的教育講場的氣氛實在令人氣餒。

版主對言論自由和說話禮儀的取捨不改變，相信氣氛不會改變。版主依然本著父母官對蟻民的心態執法，相信來日又有類似封殺。

朋友，我也希望你和其他朋友不要走，但你肯留下嗎？

Kanba

[ 本帖最後由 Kanba 於 11-11-9 19:08 編輯 ]

motherotk

kls12,
Please stay.
you are doing the right thing by asking and by voicing out need for clarification.
Sometimes,  people won't give an answer, just like when one want to separte from a relationship, there must have an underlying reason that they won't spelt out the hidden one.
the answer is already there, very obviously there.



Kanba,
good to see you return.
It's a shame that people who spoke bravely and honestly left.
it's a loss.


I hope Eviepa will return as well. Here is such a lonely planet without him.

[ 本帖最後由 motherotk 於 11-11-9 20:53 編輯 ]

Kanba

motherotk, thanks.

我想大家可以討論一下怎樣平衡言論自由和語言攻擊。

語言攻擊，包括詆毀，輕蔑，嘲諷，斥罵等，是不能把道理好好表達出來，反而自貶其格，令人生厭。這兒資深的網友都明白而且自律。

偶爾發生爭執，若非言語粗鄙，版主不必干涉；若開始無理取鬧，版主出言提點，各必自重迴避。畢竟彼此都是君子。

我明白版主希望大家彬彬有禮，但請版主也放鬆一些。例如，有網友見到垃圾，便說那是垃圾，如果那真是垃圾，又為何不能讓人說出來呢？垃圾雖不好聽，只要指出的是垃圾的東西，那句話便是中肯的實話，勉強說那東西不算垃圾反而是謊話。只要不是形容或指責別人是垃圾，便無問題。對吧？

motherotk

I agreed with you Kanba.

原帖由 Kanba 於 11-11-10 02:18 發表
motherotk, thanks.

我想大家可以討論一下怎樣平衡言論自由和語言攻擊。

語言攻擊，包括詆毀，輕蔑，嘲諷，斥罵等，是不能把道理好好表達出來，反而自貶其格，令人生厭。這兒資深的網友都明白而且自律。

偶爾發生爭執，若非言語粗 ...

samuel89

kls12 我非常尊重及佩服你既堅持及決定......但我深知道各位資深網友的自我禁言行動是不會奏效的......版主大人們根本不會因為失去各位資深網友的發言而有任何損失及不便(有損失的只是網友), .......

原帖由 Kanba 於 11-11-9 19:04 發表
其他的朋友只看不說，甚至一去不回，只因兩個理由：失望、無癮。雖然大家都是依依不捨的，但現在的教育講場的氣氛實在令人氣餒。

版主對言論自由和說話禮儀的取捨不改變，相信氣氛不會改變。版主依然本著父母官對蟻民的心態執法，相信來日又有類似封殺。

朋友，我也希望你和其他朋友不要走，但你肯留下嗎？
Kanba

我都非常不滿、失望、無癮。
我不知道版主對言論自由和說話禮儀的取捨會否改變。版主會否依然本著父母官對蟻民的心態執法，來日又有類似封殺。

但既然走不走都改變不了, 只好隨心發言, 任由版主大人們隨心處置......
朋友，我也希望你和其他朋友不要走，但你肯留下嗎？
samuel

Kanba

超級版主們，

近來你們對異見分子，反對聲音，採取較開放的態度，即使不歡迎這類意見，也不殺掉，最多是不回應，可知你們是有反思的。異見分子不是你們的敵人，提出異見的目的不過是叫醒國王快穿上衣服而已。

當你們埋怨忠心的會員沒有尊重你們禁言警告時，有無想過禁言是家長式不講理式管理，對成熟敢言的會員既不尊重又行不通?當你們迫不得已履行禁言時，被禁的朋友和在場的人又多麼傷透了心?

可能你們覺得任由這事淡化是最好的方法，這無異於董先生明白八萬五行不通便悄悄取消，到有人問起才說這政策一早已經沒有了。其實很多仍然關心教版的網民，默默看著版主們究竟會不會對這事有個說法，在根本的問題上(對言論自由，對會員的尊重)有沒有澄清。

我是真心想你們回應一下，消除我的懸念。謝謝。

Kanba

motherotk

這事淡化是最好的方法..

This is what I observed on what they are doing right now.

原帖由 Kanba 於 11-11-10 14:03 發表
超級版主們，

近來你們對異見分子，反對聲音，採取較開放的態度，即使不歡迎這類意見，也不殺掉，最多是不回應，可知你們是有反思的。異見分子不是你們的敵人，提出異見的目的不過是叫醒國王快穿上衣服而已。

當你們埋怨忠心的會員 ...

kls12

我是想離開，但只是想離開這板面吧！君子不立危牆之下，我們非貪生怕死之徒，但死要死得有價值。
有些事情讓我這個小人物去做是較為合適的。一些文學高手，寫數千字是等閒，當然是喜歡暢談己見。像我個低手去問問題，反而是更為直接。我已經比以前沒有那麼進取了，十年前我會拿版規出來一一反駁。人大了，學會了和諧的重要，多一個朋友總比少一個好。希望版主可以有一個建設性的回應，讓一些資深網友可重回舊地。


Kanba,
不要困在這裡了，到外面找合適的話題。
比Tommy提醒，EK值十億八億。根據我的低成本製作，有人給八千萬相信可弄一個出來了 。若有些志同道合，吹吓水都開心。若真的能造一個新的系統出來，EK可能是一個潛在買家。

motherotk
您缺了氧十四日都這生猛？不知Judy是否在吊鹽水？
救回那些缺氧一天的吧！

samuel,
除了留下遣言，還有甚麼可做？

[ 本帖最後由 kls12 於 11-11-11 11:03 編輯 ]