Any Reservations on International Schools?

TINGMUM

Annie123,
    

JennyL

It is really enjoyable to read all these high quality messages.
Local school = Good Chinese?
International school = Poor Chinese?
What I know is that, many students fail in all subjects in HKCEE, including Chinese.

ChiChiPaPa

無可否認，香港的學制有很多缺點。

不過，小學的課程近年已經變了很多。中文在2004年已經出了新的課程指引，亦在06年有了新的課本。中文的詞語已分開需要認讀而較深的詞語，和要學會運用但又較簡單容易的詞語。這樣的目的是希望孩子可以早些認讀多些生詞、生字，(但又無需要即時學會默寫或運用這些生詞、生字)，從而先提升閱讀能力，再通過閱讀去增進語文的能力。

課文的取材唔再係歐陽修、司馬光和文彥博的歷史人物故事，而係和學生的生活經驗相關的題目和故事。一、二年級是聽說能力和識字訓練。三、四年級是書面語的理解和書面語的表達。五、六年級是各種語文能力的綜合運用。

課程亦鼓勵親子學習和家長參與。有些學校會把唐詩和文學欣賞的部份作為親子學習的一部份。

默書鮮有背默，除了詞句讀默外，現在流行的叫趣味默書，例如叫學生不限數目，盡量寫出形容相貌的詞語。

英文方面，其實亦用了Communicative Approach去代替Grammar Approach已經幾年。同樣是希望通過英語閱讀去改善英語能力。

本地學校在資源上，不及國際學校，當然亦沒有學際學校的英語環境，以及大量的外藉學生。每所學校適應新課程的能力和進度亦未必一樣。

最後，小朋友快不快樂，做不做填鴨，除了看學校和學制，最主要還要看家長。最近有單新聞，一位小妹妹不上補習班，逃了去深圳。我覺得很多孩子都喜歡上學，但上補習班，就......

WYmom

ChiChiPaPa,

What you said is right, but due to the lack of English environment in HK, I find that supplementary learning of English after school is not very effective, particularly in upper primary.  My daughter has studied in both local and international schools, she enjoys her school life much, but the problem with local school is the heavy workload after full day school, especially from P.3 onwards due to TSA.  So after doing all homework, dictations/tests review, she was already very tired, leaving no or very little time for leisure reading or so.

Now she studies in IS, and I supplement her with Chinese learning everyday (which is in fact easier for me), teaching her some interesting Chinese articles/poems , and she has no problem with keeping up the same Chinese standard with her peers in local schools, and under the influence of strong reading atmosphere developed in IS, she read a lot both Chinese and English chapter books herself.

I believe under your guidance, your daughter also enjoys her school life in local school very much.  Do you need to supplement her with private English tutor or other tutor classes after school?  As I know, tutor classes are inevitable especially in upper forms even though you don't want to push the kids due to the banding system in HK!

ChiChiPaPa

WYmom，

我覺得很難分興趣班或補習班。現在很多補習班都包裝成興趣班或多元學習班等。無論是叫興趣班或補習班，我們要求囡囡是先體會，然後自己決定是否參與。讓小孩自己決定，如果她覺得有幫助或有興趣，她自然樂於參與。如果過度參與，影嚮了自己的閱讀，她自然會減少課外活動。

無論是閱讀習慣或課外活動的選擇，其實都會受到同學朋友的影嚮。好似閱讀，睇完都要有得傾、有交流，先會睇得開心，所以閱讀習慣受同學影嚮，多過受家長影嚮。

英文班呢？我囡囡小時候開始就有一位Native Speaker教她英文，但這每星期一小時的英文課是不可能對英語能力有根本的改變。囡囡的英文能力主要是來自她的學校，而不是這一星期一小時的英文課。國際學校和本地學校在英語環境上的差異，是不可能用tutor classes去填補的。

由於現在囡囡還是小三，所以未知面對升學，會不會冇時間睇書。但是好像很矛盾，因為知名中學的入學面試都要討論下課外書，甚至要有讀書報告。如果真係冇時間睇書，又點可以入到好學校呢？

現在囡囡的確係好忙，但主要都只係因為她的學校很重視音樂，而囡囡的音樂活動較多:合唱、聲樂、大提琴、鋼琴、樂理和學校樂團。其實妳睇我們學校家長間的討論，都知多數是和音樂有關，很少談到校內測考。

WYmom

ChiChiPaPa,

You are right, it is very 矛盾 when kids apply EMI secondary schools, they have to show that they are very good at English, very all-rounded + have outstanding performance in certain areas etc.  So parents generally have to push very hard in P.5 & 6.  It may not be a problem for the top students, but pressure on the average students will be very high, which I think is quite unnecessary.

Your kid's school is of course very well-known and good at music development.  Afterall, most important thing is whether the school we choose is suitable for the kid.  Glad to learn more from you as I have to find one for my younger kid very soon too.

agneslth

ChiChiPaPa，

大部份同意你的講法。但其實學生在小五、小六的學習壓力並不來自學校或課程本身，而是來自要一刀切把全港小學生分為三個派位組別 (banding) 的派位機制。

以小女為例，其實她就讀的本地小學是一所有心辦學的學校，絕大部份的老師都是認真教學，課程設計也見心思，學生在初小階段是採用較活潑的教學法 (四年級以上就因為要配合升中，所以是採用傳統教學)，所以一般來說都會讀得較輕鬆。值得一讚的是學校很著重閱讀，所以孩子一般都很喜歡看書。

但到了小四、五開始，家長或多或少都會感到讀書的壓力來了，因為要確保學生能成為band 1 學生。以我女兒就讀的私小為例，即要在小五、小六的三次呈分試中，在約三百人中考一百二十名內 (i.e. 排名在120/300 或以上)。這是有一定難度的，因為學生的水準其實非常接近，平均分相差一分半分，排名就可以相差很遠很遠了，而且呈分的科目包括中，英、數、常、聖經、音樂、視藝，要各科表現優良才行，只要有其中一科稍遜，也會嚴重拖低排名。

為了提高子女考試的競爭力，絕大部份的學生也有補習，即使沒補習的 (如小女) 也要在應付沈重課業之餘做不少額外考試操練，以確保每科也有86分或以上 (86分或以上是摘A的分數)，不少學生和家長也會感到很大的壓力。我認識的一些家長，就因孩子的學習問題而長期失眠，或神經衰弱，以致身心俱疲的。

當然這種競爭情況不是校方製造出來的，因這是教署的派位機制下產生的，所以在很多學校也是很普遍的，但情況在女兒就讀的學校是特別「慘烈」的，原因可能因為絕大部學生都是來自中產家庭，都有家長或補習老師「支援」，以致水準十分接近。只要其中一次呈分試偶一失手 (例如其中一科主科只得七十多分)，排名便會大跌，很難成為band 1生。

這是很無奈的情況，因為很多孩子的學業根基不錯，程度一點也不差，甚至比很多普通小學的band 1生還要好，卻要因為考試表現稍遜就淪為 band 2 生 (甚至band 3 生!)，與band 1 學校無緣，真替那些孩子不值。

小女就在壓力下渡過了五、六年級，雖然她最終的成績是屬 "band 1 中" 的學生，但經歷過這兩年的折騰後，她對讀書的態度變得被動了，興趣也大不如前，我自己的白頭髮也多了=P。這是我們讓她入讀時始料不及的，也是未經歷過也很難感受得到的。

所以，若孩子只適合入讀本地學校，又想避過派位機制引起的壓力，我會建議選擇那些非參加統一派位的一條龍學校、或讀開辦另類課程 (如IB) 的直資和私校。

衷心希望類似的情況不會在你女兒的身上學發生，希望她一直也能讀得輕鬆快樂！

ChiChiPaPa 寫道:
無可否認，香港的學制有很多缺點。

不過，小學的課程近年已經變了很多。中文在2004年已經出了新的課程指引，亦在06年有了新的課本。中文的詞語已分開需要認讀而較深的詞語，和要學會運用但又較簡單容易的詞語。這樣的目的是希望孩子可以早些認讀多些生詞、生字，(但又無需要即時學會默寫或運用這些生詞、生字)，從而先提升閱讀能力，再通過閱讀去增進語文的能力。

課文的取材唔再係歐陽修、司馬光和文彥博的歷史人物故事，而係和學生的生活經驗相關的題目和故事。一、二年級是聽說能力和識字訓練。三、四年級是書面語的理解和書面語的表達。五、六年級是各種語文能力的綜合運用。

課程亦鼓勵親子學習和家長參與。有些學校會把唐詩和文學欣賞的部份作為親子學習的一部份。

默書鮮有背默，除了詞句讀默外，現在流行的叫趣味默書，例如叫學生不限數目，盡量寫出形容相貌的詞語。

英文方面，其實亦用了Communicative Approach去代替Grammar Approach已經幾年。同樣是希望通過英語閱讀去改善英語能力。

本地學校在資源上，不及國際學校，當然亦沒有學際學校的英語環境，以及大量的外藉學生。每所學校適應新課程的能力和進度亦未必一樣。

最後，小朋友快不快樂，做不做填鴨，除了看學校和學制，最主要還要看家長。最近有單新聞，一位小妹妹不上補習班，逃了去深圳。我覺得很多孩子都喜歡上學，但上補習班，就......

father_ho

Dear agneslth,

Very complete description on the feeling as a private school parent. That is why so many parents now are trying to find the way out by themself even if they need to pay extra money. For those so call famous "educator", they just pose their comment on press according to their political preference and as gov. duckling. If we wait for the whole system to change, it may the matter of next generation(luckily). Although I am not rich enough forsure my kids can study aboard, I rather give as much as I can now before it's too late.

ChiChiPaPa

agneslth，

我喜歡升中試，多過現在的升學制度。

不過，由小學升上中學，是一個不同能力的學生和不同水平的學校的一個匹配過程。高能力的學生去水準高的學校，讓他可以發揮。普通能力的學生去一般水平的學校，使得他有適合他水平的教學課程。

強行把一位第二組別的小朋友在小五、小六，變成第一組別，並不是一件好事情。去到不適當的學校，可能會失去學習的興趣和動力。我覺得不需要太介意成績和任何考核的結果，這些都不代表孩子的將來。學習的態度和面對失敗和挑戰的勇氣更為重要。

我經常鼓勵女兒去接受學習上的挑戰。我都相信高小將會為我這位家長和她帶來更多的挑戰和考驗。

IB課程唔係冇風險的。只係現在香港開辦IBDP的課程都是不錯的國際學校，所以大家睇不到讀IB的風險。我問過妳AP和IB的比較，因為我知道如果IB讀唔掂的影嚮幾大，除了repeat，可以話冇乜出路。IB是一張整體的Cert，不是每科獨立計，不像美加的AP或英國的GCSE，IB要每個範疇都選些科目，學生的能力要文理兼備。如果冇24分，Cert都冇。低過28分，升大學會有困難。IB不是個別國家的學制，所以冇國家為低分的學生安排大學以外的升學出路。

stevema

IB課程唔係冇風險的。只係現在香港開辦IBDP的課程都是不錯的國際學校，所以大家睇不到讀IB的風險。我問過妳AP和IB的比較，因為我知道如果IB讀唔掂的影嚮幾大，除了repeat，可以話冇乜出路。IB是一張整體的Cert，不是每科獨立計，不像美加的AP或英國的GCSE，IB要每個範疇都選些科目，學生的能力要文理兼備。如果冇24分，Cert都冇。低過28分，升大學會有困難。IB不是個別國家的學制，所以冇國家為低分的學生安排大學以外的升學出路。[/quote]

ChiChipapa: you view on IB is valuable, I concern about IB's prospect too (IB is perfect model for kids, I think ...), don't know things happen in future, but I know the competition of IB in fact is much higher as it attracts all good students over the world.  I think if my kid is not smart enough, I definitely will not join IB.  It's too risky.

inho

WYmom 寫道:
ChiChiPaPa,

What you said is right, but due to the lack of English environment in HK, I find that supplementary learning of English after school is not very effective, particularly in upper primary.  My daughter has studied in both local and international schools, she enjoys her school life much, but the problem with local school is the heavy workload after full day school, especially from P.3 onwards due to TSA.  So after doing all homework, dictations/tests review, she was already very tired, leaving no or very little time for leisure reading or so.

Now she studies in IS, and I supplement her with Chinese learning everyday (which is in fact easier for me), teaching her some interesting Chinese articles/poems , and she has no problem with keeping up the same Chinese standard with her peers in local schools, and under the influence of strong reading atmosphere developed in IS, she read a lot both Chinese and English chapter books herself.

I believe under your guidance, your daughter also enjoys her school life in local school very much.  Do you need to supplement her with private English tutor or other tutor classes after school?  As I know, tutor classes are inevitable especially in upper forms even though you don't want to push the kids due to the banding system in HK!

Dear WYmon,

This is a good way to let children study a local school and then move to an IS. Children can learn more Chinese in the first few years and then concentarte more on the use of English in IS.
I got a friend with a kid studying in primary for four years and in an IS currently. The boy enjoys his high Chinese standard compared with peers and keep on learning Chinese in an after-school class, and also is able to take up English quickly. He also enjoys  school lives very much now. The "lucky" case, I think,  depends a lot on family input. The child's English level must be high enough to be admmited to IS. On the other hand, there are always long queues with some IS. The admission to a favourite IS may take some years to wait. The parents of these cases may share their exprience.
              

WYmom

inho,

You are right, My daughter and some of my  friends' kids studied in local schools for 3 years and then switched to ESF to continue up.  It is not an easy path and it also needs a lot of luck.
We are lucky as in that year ESF opened a few more classes in some primary schools to clear up a bit the very long queue of waiting list.  Now, they have opened 2 new private schools to meet the demand.

Keeping up the kids' English to a high standard is a more difficult task for me than Chinese.  So I am also looking for alternative paths for my younger kid now.  

Your kid is already in ESF, right?  What's your worries?

mattsmum

hi, inho,

what type of IS is this boy in?

I know a boy who studied in a local school for 4 yr and then went to ESF after waiting for 5 yrs.

he is lucky.

anyother similiar case?

inho 寫道:
I got a friend with a kid studying in primary for four years and in an IS currently.
              

mattsmum

"但到了小四、五開始，家長或多或少都會感到讀書的壓力來了。...必須爭取成為band 1 學生，亦即要在小五、小六的三次呈分試中，在約三百人中考一百二十名內 (i.e. 排名在120/300 或以上)。這是有一定難度的，因為學生的水準其實非常接近，平均分相差一分半分，排名就可以相差很遠很遠了，而且呈分的科目包括中，英、數、常、聖經、音樂、視藝，要各科表現優良才行，只要有其中一科稍遜，也會嚴重拖低排名。"

this also happens in our case. in DSS school, all children are "hand-picked", very clever, bright and have good background.
kids with drastic abilility deviation would not perform well in every subject and thus 嚴重拖低排名.

ChiChiPaPa

WYmom 寫道:

......

Keeping up the kids' English to a high standard is a more difficult task for me than Chinese.  So I am also looking for alternative paths for my younger kid now.  

......

WYmom，

期望大果個可以幫細果個，係唔係唔現實呢？好多人話我知期望個大女日後可以幫個細仔係唔work。

但我覺得哥哥姊姊照顧弟妹是責任和本份。我囝囝學校手冊的每月Student Home Report都係囡囡填寫的，因為我們想囡囡自小明白她有這個責任。

我囡囡和囝囝交談是用英語的。我唔知這樣可以維持多久，但我覺得家姐應該可以在英語能力方面，幫到細佬。

JennyL

WYmom 寫道:
Keeping up the kids' English to a high standard is a more difficult task for me than Chinese.  So I am also looking for alternative paths for my younger kid now.  

WYmom, From your earlier messages, I think your elder child is now in ESF. I think they are good schools. Why do you want to find something else for your younger one? Can you share your experience with ESF (or IS in general)? Do you still like IS education?

WYmom

JennyL,

ESF is very good school.  Only that it is not easy to get a seat, even siblings need to queue up.  From my experience, IS can develop the kids to be more confident, independent, all-rounded, open-minded and self-motivated.

ChiChiPaPa

WYmom，

1. ESF的RC好似唔係咁難入。

2. 即是讀其他學校只係等ESF的位。你說『Keeping up the kids' English to a high standard is a more difficult task for me than Chinese.』大果個係唔係幫唔到細果個？如果唔係，應該唔怕日後英文的程度和ESF的學生有距離。入了ESF後，應該唔難pick up。